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Talk:Jennifer Calendar
Appearances *Jenny is briefly seen in Him, during the Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered flashback. Should this be reflected on her page? It's only reused archive footage, but in my opinion, it should still count. It's important to note that this would be a fairly major change, though, as it would affect her listed last appearance ... --LeoChris 01:37, January 17, 2010 (UTC) You could put it in "only in flashback"--I was here 15:25, January 17, 2010 (UTC) :Jenny's last appearance is "Passion". In Amends the one who appears is The First.--Gonzalo84 19:34, January 17, 2010 (UTC) Fixed.--OzzMan (talk) 15:18, August 16, 2013 (UTC) Name I believe the title of this article should remain as Jenny Calendar since that is the name she is most often referred to. Let's start the discussion there. - DinoSlider (talk) 17:01, December 31, 2013 (UTC) :Our precedent is full, actual names in page titles. Daniel Osbourne, Alexander Harris, Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan. Her uncle Enyos specifically states that she is not Jenny Calendar, she is Janna of the Kalderash. As far as I know, the only exception for that rule has been Anne Steele, but given that her real name is only mentioned in the shooting script but never used in an episode, coupled with the fact that a driver's license as shown with the new name, meaning she may have had it legally changed, puts it in a different set of circumstances. To a further point, Jenny's gravestone in Sunnydale said "Jennifer Calendar", so "Jenny Calendar" would be unacceptable by our standards regardless.--OzzMan (talk) 18:26, December 31, 2013 (UTC) ::First, please stop editing the page until a resolution has been reached. I locked the page for this reason. I know you are also an admin and can edit anyway, but I hoped you would respect the lock anyway. I find it very disrespectful that you did not. ::Second, the actual quote is, "You are still Janna, of the Kalderash people." He does not say, "Your name is still Janna of the Kalderash," nor does he say that her name is not Jenny Calendar. He is saying that no matter what you call yourself, you will always be Janna to him. ::Third, her name is not "of the Kalderash" just as Enyos is not "Enyos of the Kalderash." His name on the wiki is Enyos Kalderash (at least it was until you changed it) and he is her uncle, so there should not be a presumption that she has the same last name. ::Lastly, as you pointed out the gravestone said Jennifer Calendar, so that should definitively be her name on the wiki. - DinoSlider (talk) 18:54, December 31, 2013 (UTC) Enyos does in fact say that she isn't Jenny Calendar. I watched the episode moments before making the move, so I'm fully positive of this; there's no debate to be made on that. The implication is that Jenny Calendar was an alias she used after she moved to Sunnydale, and that he felt she was "going native" in that persona, which is backed up greatly by the fact that "Calendar" is an English surname that wouldn't be used by the Kalderash people. The Kalderash are a real ethnic group, as well, and as "Kalderash" was never concretely used as a surname within the show, any use of it as such here is just speculation. That is why I moved Enyos as well. Also, I will again point out the wording of Lorne's page title. Since we know no more about Kalderash naming conventions (within the Buffyverse) than we do Dethwok naming conventions, I think it's fair to apply similar rules for titling to both of them, given their similarities. :Please quote the line where he says she isn't Jenny Calendar. I think you'll find that he himself addresses her by that name. He does say, "You thought you are Jenny Calendar now?" but that line works equally well if her name were legally changed or not. There is nothing to say when or why (or even if) she changed her name. It is just as likely that she changed it long before they asked her to watch over Angel. When immigrating to the US, many people changed the spelling of their names. As such, it is not an alias, it is her name. :As far as comparing to Lorne, all of the Pyleans seem to refer each other with the full "of the ___ Clan" designation, and it can be reasonably assumed that this is part of their naming convention. The same cannot be said for any of the Kalderash. :You pointed out that the precedent is full, actual names in page titles, but that does not mean original names. Spike is not William, Angel is not Liam, Anya is not Aud, and Anne Steele is not whatever her name was. Jennifer Calendar is her full, actual name as evidenced by the gravestone. :I propose the following titles: "Jennifer Calendar", "Enyos", and "Magda." - DinoSlider (talk) 17:07, January 2, 2014 (UTC) ::Just being a devil's advocate here, but if we are using full, actual names, why aren't we using Buffy Anne Summers? FTWinchester (talk) 02:14, January 1, 2014 (UTC) :::It was decided years ago to simply use first and last names only. See this discussion for reference. - DinoSlider (talk) 17:08, January 2, 2014 (UTC) :::Thanks. FTWinchester (talk) 17:16, January 2, 2014 (UTC) So the discussion remained without conclusion? I agree with DinoSlider's arguments, and add that 1) the fact that she changed her name to Jennifer Calendar is enough to consider it her actual name; 2) her tombstone ("Passion") does say Jennifer Calendar, not Janna of anything else; 3) insisting the article to be called Janna of the Calderash is not useful, as this is just a piece of trivia mentioned in just one episode, and 4) the proposed "Jennifer Calendar" is not an informal nickname (as Jenny, Xander, or Fred would be), and still we know an article called Spike is much better than the somewhat obscure William Pratt. — Ellesy (talk) 21:59, October 11, 2018 (UTC) With no counterargument for over five years, I believe it's fair to change the article's name to Jennifer Calendar. — Ellesy (talk) 16:18, January 8, 2019 (UTC) ::Largely, I agree with nearly all of this. My only problem is using the tombstone as a concrete reason to call her “Jennifer” and not “Jenny.” ::First of all, you bring up the very good point that “Janna of the Kalderash” is a name we don’t hear used to refer to Jenny in the show. However, neither is the name “Jennifer Calendar” ever a name that Jenny uses herself. ::Given that Jenny is a nickname, it could be said that her name should still remain “Jennifer Calendar” on this wiki page, as it’s her full name and not an alias she goes by. The problem with this is that we never hear Jenny herself ''go by Jennifer Calendar in-show. If “Jenny Calendar” was the name she went by, it would be reasonable to assume that “Jennifer Calendar” was her true and given name, but Enyos established that she was born as Janna. This means that “Jenny Calendar” is the name she chose for herself, as it’s what she introduces herself to Giles by, and it’s what she insists on answering to (in The Dark Age, she gives Giles a reproving look when he calls her Ms. Calendar, and firmly reminds him to call her Jenny in both Some Assembly Required and The Dark Age). ::Finally, considering that the tombstone has no birthday or death date, it’s (much like Jenny’s birth name being ''Janna) a piece of trivia existing in only one episode, and it’s information that isn’t consistent with the rest of what we know about Jenny: a woman who persistently insists on the informality of Jenny, ''to the extent of replacing her birth name (Janna) and going exclusively by Jenny. Calling her “Jennifer,” both in and out of canon, lacks continuity, as it doesn’t mesh with the fact that Jenny renamed herself. The tombstone, made by someone who wasn’t Jenny, holds a name Jenny never used, and is the singular instance of her being called “Jennifer.” Regardless of whether “Jennifer Calendar” is the name someone else put on her tombstone, “Jenny Calendar” is the name she herself chose, which makes it her given name. - Exasperatedcordelia3 (talk) 22:58, January 9, 2019 (UTC) I do agree with you, the character is Jenny Calendar, independently of birth or complete names. Though, as you said, my argument is in favor to Jennifer because this wikia favor complete names when the main nickname is derivative. This is the convention that titled articles "Alexander Harris", "Winifred Burkle", "Daniel Osbourne", "Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan", "Genevieve Savidge". While we could have "Xander Harris" and "Fred Burkle", we have the cases of "Oz Osbourne" being redundant, "Lorne of the Deathwok Clan" inconsistent, and "Gigi Savidge" doesn't even have enough sample to define how she's known. While Wikipedia, for example, favors stage names (Bob Dylan vs. Robert Dylan, Eddie Murphy vs. Edward Murphy), these characters aren't celebrities in the Buffyverse, instead more alike historical figures with personal preferences for nicknames. This is a different approach when the nickname isn't derivative, as example of Spike (William Pratt) and Angel (Liam), who are also famous figures themselves within the Buffyverse, and created completely new names for themselves. What I mean is that, in the discussion of "Jennifer" vs. "Jenny", there's such a larger convention that a change would involve creating so many minor rules that in the end would have no rule at all, only particularities — it should apply to all or none at all. Her case is still like Xander's and Fred's, who are rarely identified by their actual name and mostly by others, despite their personal preferences. Meanwhile, I see the discussion of "Janna" vs. "Jennifer" as falling in the second case of non derivative new names. You argued about her chosen name, but the choice I see is her legal change from "Janna" to "Jennifer", and not in her preference to informality. I think it should be enough that we indicate such major nickanme in her main description, as it is right now (Jennifer “Jenny” Calendar, born Janna of the Kalderash, was a computer science teacher...'').* Ellesy (talk) 11:12, January 10, 2019 (UTC) :*Updated my last contribution after organizing my thoughts. :Ellesy (talk) 12:41, January 10, 2019 (UTC)